Everyone’s approach to their side hustle is different, but the end goal usually follows the same narrative: turn the side hustle into a full-time one. The problem is though, with everyone adopting a side hustle, and calling it so, is the term overused? Our guest, Austin Kleon, seems to think so.

In his words, “you shouldn’t have to hustle.” Because if you’re passionate about something, it shouldn’t be exhausting. It should be something you enjoy doing because it brings you a sense of fulfillment.

In this episode, Chris sits down with acclaimed author, Austin Kleon. His most notable books include also happen to be two titles we really love: Steal Like an Artist and Show Your Work.

Between blogging, art, reading countless books, and even writing poetry, Austin has an approach to writing that’s interesting and enticing. His experience working with different mediums has allowed him to write in a way that’s short, yet effective, and stays focused on the reader.

But he’s not just a writer. He’s a “writer who draws” and “makes art with words.” He notes that any time he tries to let one side lead, be it the visual or the writer side, it’s usually not a good idea. His secret sauce is finding a way for his two sides to talk together and work in harmony.

If you’re a creative who has strengths in both writing and visual art, or a mixture of any other skills, you don’t have to separate the two to do your best work. Finding a way to balance your skillsets can push you even further ahead than you think.

This conversation is so jam-packed with stories and opinions on what it means to be creative that we broke it up into two parts. In part one, Austin and Chris discuss his background, what changed the game for him, and why he hates the term “side hustle.”